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International Law Violations

Discussion of sovereignty, just war principles, legitimacy of intervention against dictators, and international community response to U.S. actions

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The discussion centers on the contentious balance between national sovereignty and the moral justification for extrajudicial interventions, specifically regarding the U.S. removal of foreign leaders like Maduro. While some view such actions as a necessary "policing" of illegitimate tyrants, others argue that true sovereignty is an illusion in a world dominated by superpower spheres of influence. Critics emphasize that even if a ruler is tyrannical, intervention remains unjustified without a viable plan for stability or adherence to international legal procedures, warning that such moves risk inciting civil war. Ultimately, the dialogue highlights a global community caught between passive shock and diplomatic rebuke as the U.S. appears to shift toward more aggressive, resource-driven rhetoric that challenges established international red lines.

13 comments tagged with this topic

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Well, really any leader who dissatisfies the president of the US, really
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I think by "this kind of operation" he means extrajudicially removing a sitting president (legitimate or not) of another country for trial elsewhere. Not cyber attack or espionage.
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That's like arguing against the police arresting criminals because it will incentivize them to acquire weapons. The only consistent action for the US to take, given they - and much of the world - do not consider Maduro the legitimate President of Venezuela, was to remove him from power.
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Terrible take in the 2nd premise of your argument. Is Venezuela a sovereign nation or a colony? Can similar logic be applied against Russia or even the US?
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> Is Venezuela a sovereign nation or a colony? Reality is not that black and white. We may no longer have formal colonies, buy the world is still carved up by spheres of influence by the superpowers. Displease them and you'll find out how limited your sovereignty really is.
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Of course it can, and it is. Such logic is behind the argument in favor of arresting Putin. Many have argued that should happen if he were to step on their nations' soil. The reason no one thinks seriously about going into Russia and enforcing open arrest warrants is that they fear the consequences, though maybe in light of Russia's revealed impotence that fear is unjustified.
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The sovereignty of Venezuela is not the right argument here, because practical sovereignty is not absolute and there are just war grounds for Maduro's capture. The man was an awful tyrant. However , just because there are just war grounds for Maduro's capture per se doesn't mean the operation was justified by just war principles. It wasn't. It takes more than just the fact that the ruler is tyrannical to justify an operation like this. Operations like this can risk civil war and all sorts of horrible fallout that also need to be considered. There must be a realistic plan following the removal of the tyrannical leader. As always, justice must be upheld always. And of course there are the procedural and legal aspects that Trump totally ignored.
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And replace him with the just as illegitimate VP? What world is that consistent in?
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the rest of the world is weirdly too passive, there's a smell of shock
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IMHO the rest of the world isn't asleep. Denmark's prime minister said the same as you, for example. US just got roasted at UN by inter alia, France, with ~20 countries either speaking the same or asking to speak on it. That's just from 30s with front page of nytimes.com.
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In EU, so far I believe only the PM of Spain had the backbone to speak properly with anything that could be considered "strongly worded", proving that it's possible. The others have been variants of "Celebrating liberation of the Venezuelan people from the illegitimate dictator, a new dawn for democracy! (oh and everyone (not naming names) please behave and try to be mindful of international law and human rights from now on)" Not a single word about the dead, for one. While the NYTimes headline names France as critical, here's Macron (still only posting) on Twitter: https://xcancel.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/200752538697719404... Meanwhile POTUS is over there talking literally and openly about how US are "going to run things" and motivating it with taking the oil and how they don't really care about democracy one way or other.
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understandably, it's more about the acceleration in aggressiveness from Trump clan and the precedent of crossing the usual international red lines
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Almost every country made some repudiation note. But I don't think we'll see anybody doing any actual thing because of that.